Podcast follow-up: The CPM's "bona fides"

Yet again, Rick Chapman of aaSS University glances left at his concept of product management, glances right at reality, and concludes that reality must be wrong. In this case, he tries to cast doubt on whether the Cranky Product Manager is currently employed as a product manager, and therefore if the CPM can speak with any authority or accuracy about product management.

The basis of the charge? The CPM can get sales projections. Therefore, according to Chapman, the CPM is fabricating an incident that could not have happened, because PMs never get sales projections.

I can confirm that the Cranky Product Manager, whom I just interviewed, is a real product manager. And yes, in many companies, PMs do get sales projections. In fact, they can't do their jobs effectively without this information.

Chapman reminds me of the Houyhnhnms, a race of intelligent but narrow-minded horses, in Gulliver's Travels. The Hounyhhnms are baffled by Gulliver, an apparently intelligent creature who looks a lot like a Yahoo, a "degenerate and brutal" species of animal. The savage Yahoos couldn't possibly be endowed with reason, and if they were, it would be a very dangerous situation indeed. Gulliver flees the land of the Hounyhhnms, since there's no way to convince them that he is both intelligent and not a threat. With their comfortable worldview restored, the Hounyhhnms are happy to see him go.

Comments

[rick]

This, of course, is not an accurate outline of what I wrote. To see what I actually said, go this link:

http://www.saasuniversity.com/COMMUNITY/Forum/tabid/1230/forumid/1/postid/27/view/topic/Default.aspx

BTW, in all seriousness, do NOT take the behavior the Cranky One describes on her blog as a example of what you can do as a product manager at a software company. You run a real risk of losing your job if you do! Remember, she is a persona writing a blog that describes everthing on it as fiction. The particular incident she describes sounds VERY fictional and presents a real danger for someone who takes the posting she wrote seriously.

I am now off to SaaS University in Chicago, where I will be meeting with real CEOs at real companies. I'm going be giving a presentation at the session in which I'll be expounding on some of the concepts I've described in my previous two posts and will be putting up post three when I return.

rick

[Tom Grant]

The pattern is now clear:

1. Rick Chapman takes an extreme and unsubstantiated position.
2. People point out that it is unsubstantiated.
3. Chapman responds by claiming that he's being misquoted.

At this point, the people in step #2 can spend time pointing out that, no, there was no misquote. When you say that the CPM " show signs of being written by someone familiar with the job of a product manager but one who has not been a PM themself," followed up by, in all caps, "THIS DID NOT HAPPEN!" (a reference to one of the CPM's anecdotes), you're clearly casting doubt on the quality of her observations. In fact, that's exactly what you say: "Apply commonsense before taking her too seriously!"

Don't worry, I won't be posting anything further that might "mischaracterize" you. You're a tummler, and not in the good connotation of that word. ("Is the Heretech Jewish? Inquiring minds want to know.")

[Greg Council]

Funny thread made even funnier by someone willing to defend a fallacy: that an appeal to the sales force for informaiton on sales opps is verboten.

In my experience a product manager who doesn't have the the trust and goodwill of a salesforce (or at least key folks within that org.) will be blocked at every turn.

Plus, I didn't read anything stating that the CPM went into Salesforce and changed pipeline or forecasts. Yeah, that would be bad.

my .02

[rick]

+++1. Rick Chapman takes an extreme and unsubstantiated position.+++

Oy ve! Tom, time to sit down, take a deep breath, and stop with the verklempt.

Now, are you REALLY saying that doubting the existence of "someone" or some group who has proclaimed that everything on their website is fiction and that the "woman" writing the site may not be a woman is EXTREME?

I think that's rather normal, myself. I kind of wonder what happened when someone told you there was no Tooth Fairy! Hope that wasn't a ticket to join Prozac Nation.

+++ 2. People point out that it is unsubstantiated. +++

WHAT is "unsubstantiated?" The fact that persona in question has publicly stated that everything they write is fiction? You DO realize it's not a particular stretch to suppose that the site persona may not be an
actual person (well, one that matches the site description)? That sites have been set up in the
past to support different commercial projects? And that when articles appear on the site that describe events taking place that people with real experience in an industry realize are HIGHLY unlikely, this may lead to speculation about the identity of a persona and the experience of the writer?

+++ 3. Chapman responds by claiming that he's being misquoted. +++

Well, of course you did. That's a matter of public record. You do realize this, correct? People can actually read what I wrote, and your summaries of my statements are very inaccurate.

"When you say that the CPM " show signs of being written by someone familiar with the job of a product manager but one who has not been a PM themself," followed up by, in all caps, "THIS DID NOT HAPPEN!" (a reference to one of the CPM's anecdotes), you're clearly casting doubt on the quality of her observations."

I certainly am casting doubt on the assertion I wrote about. And I say exactly why. And I note that no one has yet actually challenged my opinion in a substantive way. The events the persona describes are unbelievable to people in the software industry. And, again, I state why on the website. I also note that when she was challenged on this point, it turned out that this wasn't something "she'd" done, it was a former "co-worker."

Imgaine doubting the accuracy of the observation of a persona who changed their story and now says the events described occured to a co-worker. Ah, the cynicism! Oh, the humanity!

+++ "Apply commonsense before taking her too seriously!" +++

And I think that's wonderful advice! The person or people writing the CrankyPM site are not accountable for what they say and will suffer no reprecussions from their postings. After all, you HAVE been warned that everything on the site is fiction. But a real person in the real world has no such luxury.

+++ Don't worry, I won't be posting anything further that might "mischaracterize" you +++

You write whatever you wish. If you, in my opinion, mischaracterize me I can point this out here or on my own sites and let whoever's interested make up their own mind.

Now, the good news is that I gave a presentation on the topic of the impact of SaaS on product management at our recent SaaS university session in Chicago. All events were video taped and the entire program will be up online on a PPV basis in about 30 days. I'm considering offering that session for free for a few days so that those interested on the topic in the PM community can watch it and ponder my ideas.

rick chapman
www.softletter.com
www.saasuniversity.com

[Colin]

Rick, Rick, Rick ...

I can well understand why the sales force at any REAL company you worked for has refused to provide you with information. Give up before you shoot yourself any further in the foot. As a currently working PM, IMHO you are not doing yourself or your "University" any favors by further shredding your credibility.

[rick]

+++ Rick, Rick, Rick +++

Collin, Collin, Collin.

You haven't identified your company in this post. Please do so. I'd like to give your CEO a call and discuss if his company allows line PMs to directly issue sales forecast requests to your SF; I'd also like to talk to the VP of sales.

You see, SL is a real publication and publishes real facts about real companies. If your company does this, it's certainly very, very different from most software firms in this respect. I'd like to write about how your company manages this process, how it works for them, and other topics related to the issue.

I can be easily reached at my E-mail address or you can call me direct at 860-663-0552 (EST, CT).

I await your call.

I have a feeling you won't be calling and that my credibility is just fine. But if I DO receive your call, I will be writing that article and will make it publicly available. And I'll give you the credit for providing the inspiration behind its publication.